2009 dodge journey 3.5 water pump

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2009 Dodge Journey

2009 Dodge Journey - Water Pump

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Murray Temperature Control Water Pump - New

Repair your car's water pump.

Your water pump pressurizes coolant to keep it moving throughout the engine and cooling system, helping to keep your engine at its appropriate and safe-operating temperature. The water pump on your vehicle includes an impeller inside the engine's water channel that is driven by a pulley, which is powered by the engine's belt. Over time, the water pump gasket, the impeller, or the bearing in the water pump may fail. Depending on how your water pump fails, you may experience coolant leaks, engine overheating, or steam coming from under the hood indicating that the water pump requires service or replacement. You may also notice squeaking from the water pump pulley if the bearing has begun to fail, and if the pulley seems loose or wobbles while the engine is running, it could allow the belt to slip off or suffer damage. Water pump failure can quickly lead to overheating and engine damage, so it is best to diagnose and repair any water pump or cooling system issues before you continue to drive your vehicle to prevent more costly or severe problems. If you need a new water pump, shop O'Reilly Auto Parts for the right replacement cooling system components for your repair. We also carry the antifreeze, radiator hoses, and serpentine belts you might need to complete your water pump installation.

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• Maintenance & D.Y.I.

3.5L timing belt and water pump replacement

• timing belt

By JDennis February 5, 2018 in Maintenance & D.Y.I.

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I haven't seen much in the way of more involved repair walkthroughs on forums for Journeys, so after replacing the timing belt and water pump on the wife's car I figured I'd write one to benefit others in the future. 

It is a significant savings to do this job yourself, and not terribly difficult if you've ever changed an alternator or other minor mechanical work. 

Background: The wife messaged me at work that the Journey was making a funny sound. I drove it and heard nothing. It would seemingly come and go at will. It turned out to the timing belt tensioner  had disintegrated. The internals were just floating around behind the timing cover . The front metal plate that at one time held the bearings was laying against the crank pulley when I opened it up, the rear plate was chewed up and mangled, and the bearings we're distributed at random throughout.

The job requires few specialty tools, which if you do not currently own, will potentially save you money down the road and, even if you must purchase them all at the time of the job, will still come out cheaper than paying a mechanic, or worse the dealership.

Job could take anywhere from a few hours for someone with experience to a full day, so set aside some time if this is your first time doing it. Apologies for the lengthy read, but I tried to be as descriptive as possible. Unfortunately I did not think to take photos while I was doing it.

What you need:

- Timing belt - Tensioner Pulley - Water Pump - Hydraulic Tensioner

Required tools:

- Harmonic Balancer Puller ($30 or so on Amazon) - E12 external torx socket (try to find as short of a socket as possible, there is not a lot of space to work) - T40 torx socket (again, shortest possible is better. Walmart used to carry a set made by Great Neck which were much shorter than any others I own. They're not great tools, but the bolt it will be used on does not require a lot of torque) - 10mm box wrench and socket - 13mm box wrench and socket - 15mm box wrench and socket - 16mm box wrench and socket - 18mm box wrench and socket - 24mm socket - 1/2" Impact wrench - 3/8" ratchet - Flathead screwdriver - Hammer - Pliers - Jack - Jackstands - small piece of wood (6" 2x4, 6" 1x4, small cube of plywood etc.) - shallow fluid catch pan

Optional tools ( but good to have):

- Slim head ratchet - Paint pen, nail polish, white out or other marking device that works on rubber, steel and aluminum. - Spring clamp

Start by parking on a flat level surface, with the vehicle in park, parking break set, and place wheel chocks in front and back of the rear wheels. 

Jack the vehicle up and place your jackstands. Check to make sure the jackstand feet are all touching the ground and that the vehicle is securely supported by them.

Remove the passenger wheel, and plastic belly pan if installed (Ours hasn't had the belly pan since we've owned it).

Lower your Jack and move it underneath the engine on the passenger side. Place your block of wood between the oil pan and the Jack and raise it until it is just touching the oil pan.

You can follow the recommended procedure for draining the coolant now, or... Just place your catch pan under the lower radiator hose and pull the lower hose off. 

While that is draining, remove the 2 13mm bolts holding the coolant reservoir in place, and the 1 13mm bolt holding the power steering reservoir. Lift the coolant reservoir and using your pliers, slide the clamps holding the lines back and remove the lines. Bend the lines out of the way and set the reservoir to the side. Thread the bolts back into their holes so they do not get misplaced.

Remove the 3 18mm bolts and 2 10mm bolts holding the upper right engine mount . Set it to the side and lay the bolts in the holes so they do not get misplaced.

Slide underneath the vehicle and remove the 2 long 18mm bolts holding the front lower center engine mount . Remove the rubber grommets, place them on the bolts and set the bolts in a location where they will not lost. You can remove the 4 or 5 bolts in the rear of the mount as well to allow more movement, but in my experience it wasn't necessary.

Using a 15mm box wrench lift the serpentine belt tensioner and remove the serpentine belt . Loosen the 15, or 16mm bolt that holds the tensioner arm in place. It only needs to come out enough to allow the alignment tab to be pulled out, and the tensioner arm pivoted up and down.

Remove the serpentine belt idler pulley.

Remove the 5 10mm bolts and 1 13mm bolt from the cast aluminum timing inspection cover. Place it to the side and lay the bolts in the holes so they do not get misplaced.

With your impact, remove the 18mm bolt securing the harmonic balancer to the crankshaft. Remove two of the small silver pivot bolts from your puller and attach the puller to the harmonic balancer. Slide the longer of the two rods into the puller bolt, grease the threads of the puller bolt, and thread it into the puller. Make sure the rod slides into the cavity on the crankshaft. Use a 24mm socket and your impact to remove the harmonic balancer. Set the harmonic balancer to the side and lubricate and thread the 18mm bolt back into the crankshaft. It only has to be flush with the crank gear and hand tight at this point, but you are going to be using it to turn the crank later.

From here in you will begin having to raise and lower the Jack supporting the engine periodically to create space to work.

Remove the 3 E12 external torx bolts from the power steering pump and slide it towards the front of the engine bay.

Remove the (I forget how many) 10mm bolts, use a deep 15mm socket or box wrench to remove the nut over the stud, and use your T40 socket to remove the one bolt that was behind the serpentine belt tensioner from the timing cover . 

Slide the timing cover over the stud and wiggle it out through the top. You may need to adjust the engine position to create space to get it out, be careful not to bend the cover.

With all of the timing belt components in place, rotate the crank shaft by hand until the arrow on the back of the crank pulley lines up with the arrow on the engine. Do not confuse the arrow on the back of the pulley with the notch on the face of the pulley. 

Check your cam gear to see if the lines on the cam gears line up with the marks on the bracket. If no lines are visible by the marks, look at the bottom of the pulleys, they are likely 180 degrees out. If that is the case, rotate the crank once more by hand until all marks line up.

At this point I like to use some brake cleaner and an air hose to clean everything up and blow any debris out. In my case the tensioner pulley had grenaded and the ball bearings as well as various other particles we're scattered throughout. Make sure you get everything cleaned out, so it doesn't end up damaging your new belt or components.

I also like to use a paint pen to clearly mark the timing marks so they are easy to identify.

Remove the 2 13mm bolts holding the tensioner in place and slide it towards the axleshaft and out of it's hole and discard. Remove the old timing belt and discard.

Place your new water pump face up  on a level surface. Remove (again, I forget how many) 10mm bolts securing the water pump. The bolts are two different lengths, so as you remove them from the old water pump, place them in the corresponding hole on the new water pump so you can keep track of where they go. 

Using a Flathead screwdriver and a hammer, gently tap the screwdriver under the face of the water pump and rotate it to pry the water pump free. Be careful not to mar the mounting surface on the engine. If you create a small bur, one the engine face you can use the hammer and screwdriver to tap it flat again, you just want the mounting surface to be clean, flat, and free from defects.

Place the old water pump next to the new one and transfer the bolts into their corresponding holes.

Check that the gasket for the new  water pump is firmly in place. Put the new water pump in place and finger tighten the bolts until they are snug. I could not find a specific order to tighten the bolts, but you want to jump around as you tighten them, criss crossing over the pump pulley. Do not start from one and go clockwise/counterclockwise. You want an even force to be applied so the gasket seals properly.

Remove the 15 or 16mm bolt holding the tensioner pulley to the tensioner arm. Install the new pulley.

Install the timing belt. Starting at the crank, I like to push a 1/4" ratchet handle to keep tension on the belt and pulley. Doesn't have to be wedged in hard, just enough to keep the teeth in place so they don't slip. 

Next slip the belt over the front pulley (right as you are facing it). You may have to rotate it clockwise slightly with an 18mm wrench when you slip the belt on and then push it counterclockwise to take up the slack. Just keep a controlled grip on the wrench and make slight adjustments. 

If you have some small spring clips you can use then here to keep the belt from sliding off of the cam gear or changing position, it doesn't have to be strong, in fact you want it to be a light grip to keep from damaging the cam gears which can be brittle, just enough to keep the teeth engaged.

When the belt is in place with slack taken up, slide it under the water pump pulley and over the rear (left as you are facing it) cam pulley. 

Slide the new hydraulic tensioner into place and lubricate and hand thread the bolts enough to get them started. You may need to adjust the grenade pin slightly, if it is pushed through and sticking out of the rear of the tensioner it will not be able to fit through the hole.

Slip the belt over the tensioner pulley and tighten the tensioner bolts just enough that you can still slide the belt off of the tensioner pulley .

Using a paint pen or other marking device, mark the cam pulleys and belt at a tooth location that will not be confused with the timing marks.

Tighten the tensioner bolts and check timing mark alignment. If anything has shifted, take note of how far off it is (1 tooth, 2teeth, etc)  slack the bolts and adjust belt position accordingly using the marks you made.

When the tensioner is firmly bolted in place and all marks line up correctly, remove the grenade pin. Check timing marks again. If they are not lined up, remove the tensioner and compress it using a vise or large c-clamp and reinstall the pin.

If all of your marks line up, place a 18mm wrench on the crank bolt and rotate the crank by hand for two full turns. Check your timing marks again. If they are off, remove the tensioner as described above and start over. If they line up correctly you are done.

Reassemble timing covers etc in reverse order. Refill coolant, purge air and the job is done.

I was unable to find torque specs specifically for the Journey, but did find some other vehicles that came with the 3.5L which had torque specs posted. 

I know there are some YouTube videos covering this procedure, but the videos tend to jump from step to step and I like having a written procedure to reference.

• JimBobLeNob

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I'm on the fence about recommending OEM parts for the job. In all of my years working on cars I've never personally seen a tensioner pulley  come apart like that... 

I would however recommend purchasing quality parts from a reputable manufacturer at your own discretion, and purchasing all of the parts listed, as it is a time consuming job, a bit of a PITA because there's not much room to work, and you only want to do it once rather than keep going back to replace those parts you opted not to change.

Optionally you may wish to add cam and crank seals to your list. My wife's Journey was bone dry behind the timing cover , and I've never seen those seals leak enough to be of consequence. In my own experience, by the time they need replacing the engine  will likely be due for a rebuild or the scrapyard.

Left out coolant  as well, Zerex G-05

I'm surprised the the camshaft didnt skip and ruin a few valves in the process....guess you were lucky

Both cams were off one tooth. Timing belt  had two small vertical cuts on opposing ends about 10mm from the edge but otherwise in good condition. Tensioner outter ring was still riding on the inner, so maybe 8mm shorter? But the tensioner was now fully extended so maybe slightly less difference under no load or light load. Was enough to keep it going after failure, but if it went on any longer it'd be toast.

How many miles when this happened?  Sounds like a PIA job....

110k, it was due. Also swapped the fuel pump  module out today to fix the fuel level sending unit.

Messed with the original unit once I had it out to see why it quit working. The ground wire had an open... Was just insulation holding it to the terminal. They also didn't bother to actually strip any wire when they crimped the connectors on. 

Doesn't much surprise me since one of the coolant  fittings was only screwed in hand tight as well and backed out.

figure I'll rewire the old unit, solder the connections and keep it as a spare.

of note, the replacement module I got was molded differently. The alignment tab was slightly counterclockwise of where it should be, and the locking tabs for the plug we're not placed correctly.

being as I was already knee deep in it, I trimmed to fit and drove on.

car is check engine  light free again for the time being.

• 2late4u and larryl

• 9 months later...

Just finished this job up along with replacing all the motor and trans mounts. 

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Water Pump and Related Parts for 2009 Dodge Journey

2009 Dodge Journey

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• Bolt Mopar Oil Pump. M6x1.00x25.00. Water connector assy to cyl block. Pump to Timing Belt Cover. Housing. [M6x1.0x25.0].
• $16.38 Thermostat Seal Mopar
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• Water Outlet Seal Mopar Left Head To Outlet.
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2009 Dodge Journey Water Pump

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13 Products found

Gates ® Engine Coolant Standard Water Pump for 2009 Dodge Journey

• Notes: Interference Eng Application; Timing Belt Driven
• Housing: Cast Aluminum
• Impeller Material: Plastic
• Rotation of Impeller: Standard
• Timing Belt Driven: Yes
• UPC: 770075347682
• Part Description: 2009 Dodge Journey Engine Coolant Standard Water Pump
• 2009 Dodge Journey | All Trims | 6 Cyl 3.5L

Dayco ® Engine Coolant Water Pump for 2009 Dodge Journey

• Notes: Serpentine Belt Driven; w/o Back Housing
• UPC: 036687981851
• Part Description: 2009 Dodge Journey Engine Coolant Water Pump
• 2009 Dodge Journey | All Trims | 4 Cyl 2.4L

GMB ® Engine Coolant Water Pump for 2009 Dodge Journey

• Housing Material: Aluminum
• Hub Height: 2.53 in
• Hub Pilot Diameter: 2.81 in
• Impeller Rotation: Standard
• UPC: 083286131491
• Water Pump Drive Type: Serpentine Belt

• Notes: Timing Belt Driven, Replace Timing Belt w/Pump
• UPC: 036687988898

Airtex ® Engine Coolant Water Pump for 2009 Dodge Journey

• Notes: Timing Belt Should Be Replaced with Water Pump
• Fan Clutch Included: No
• Hub Height: 63.50 mm
• Impeller Material: Composite
• Impeller Rotation: Reverse
• Impeller Vane Quantity: 6
• Includes Back Housing: No
• Mounting Hole Quantity: 11
• Pulley Outside Diameter: 60.71 mm
• Water Pump Drive Type: Timing Belt

• Hub Height: 2.50 in
• Hub Pilot Diameter: 2.78 in
• Impeller Material: Metal
• UPC: 083286123441

OEM (Genuine) 2009 Dodge Journey Water Pump

• Notes : 2.4 Liter
• Item Dimensions : 5.5 x 5.2 x 5.3 inches
• Item Weight : 1.90 Pounds
• Fitment Type : Direct Replacement
• Part Description : 2009 Dodge Journey Water Pump
• 2009 Dodge Journey | AVP, Base, Crossroad, Express, SE, SE Value, SXT | 4 Cyl 2.4 L GAS

OEM (Genuine) 2009 Dodge Journey Engine Cooling Water Pump

• Notes : Journey; 2.4 Liter
• Other Names : Water Pump, Water Pump Assembly
• Item Dimensions : 12.9 x 11.1 x 9.0 inches
• Item Weight : 6.00 Pounds
• Replaces : 5047138AB, 5047138AA, MN187244
• Part Description : 2009 Dodge Journey Engine Cooling Water Pump

• Impeller Material: Stamped Steel
• Timing Belt Driven: No
• UPC: 770075403326

• Notes : Journey; 3.5 Liter
• Item Dimensions : 4.9 x 6.4 x 10.8 inches
• Item Weight : 3.50 Pounds
• Replaces : 4792968AD
• 2009 Dodge Journey | Crew, R/T, SXT | 6 Cyl 3.5 L GAS

• Hub Height: 64.30 mm
• Hub Hole Quantity: 3
• Mounting Hole Quantity: 5
• Pulley Included: No

Cardone Reman ® Remanufactured Water Pumps for 2009 Dodge Journey

• Casting Number: R 040 201 00 01, 04792968AD
• Duty Rating: Standard
• E-Waste: No
• Gaskets Included: Yes
• Hub Height: 2.5; 63.5
• Material: Aluminum, Cast Iron, Steel
• Mounting Hardware Included: No
• Number of Hose Connectors: 0
• Package Contents: Water Pump, Gaskets
• Product Condition: Remanufactured
• Pulley Included: Yes
• Pulley Type: Flat Belt
• Rotation: Clockwise
• UPC: 082617742085
• Part Description: 2009 Dodge Journey Remanufactured Water Pumps

Airtex ® Engine Auxiliary Water Pump for 2009 Dodge Journey

• Inlet Pipe Diameter: 19.10
• Material: Aluminum/Plastic
• Mounting Hole Quantity: 2
• Outlet Pipe Diameter: 19.10
• UPC: 611176043052
• Part Description: 2009 Dodge Journey Engine Auxiliary Water Pump

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Cherepovets: From impoverished monastery settlement to industrial behemoth

Photographs by William Brumfield

Russia’s industrial might has long depended on a number of mid-size cities that have formed the backbone of its iron and steel production. The most famous of these is Magnitogorsk, located in the Chelyabinsk Region in the southern Urals, but equally important is Cherepovets (population around 318,000), situated at the confluence of the Sheksna and Yagorba Rivers in the western part of the Vologda Region. Although Cherepovets has a diversified industrial base, it is best known as the home of Severstal, one of Russia’s largest industrial enterprises.

Archeological excavations in the Sheksna-Yagorba area have uncovered objects dating as early as the Mesolithic period (several thousand years ago). By the 10th century, the local Finno-Ugric population was involved in distant trade, and Slavs began to settle the area, which fell within the orbit of Novgorod the Great.

In contemporary Russian, “cherep” means “skull,” yet there is no clearly accepted derivation for the town’s name. The earliest mention occurs in reference to a Monastery of the Resurrection in “Cherepoves,” a broad term for the area along the Sheksna.

The Resurrection Monastery was founded apparently around 1362 by Feodosy and Afanasy (d. 1392), monks from the Trinity-St. Sergius Monastery, the primary center of Muscovite monasticism. There is little reliable information about the monastery during the medieval period. Built of logs, it was burned in 1610 as part of the widespread devastation of the Russian North by Polish-Lithuanian forces during the Time of Troubles, a dynastic interregnum and period of catastrophic social disorder that lasted from 1605 through the following decade.

The impoverished Resurrection Monastery struggled throughout the 17th and 18th centuries. Its many troubles are exemplified by the destruction of the main Church of the Resurrection by a lightning strike in 1713. The monastery’s first masonry structure was a rebuilding of the Resurrection Church in 1752-1756, with two secondary altars dedicated to St. John the Divine and to Sts. Feodosy and Afanasy. In 1761, work began on a second brick church, dedicated to the Trinity and to St. Sergius of Radonezh, founder of the Trinity-St. Sergius Monastery.

How to get there:

Despite this modest surge, the monastery was closed in 1764 as part of the secularization of monastic holdings by Catherine the Great. Converted to parish use for the settlement that had developed around the monastery, the church became the Resurrection Cathedral with the official granting of town status to Cherepovets in 1777.

Following its designation as a town in 1777, Cherepovets gained a formal street plan in 1782 as part of Catherine’s efforts to rationalize the development of provincial centers. In 1789, the new street grid was anchored on the high left bank of the Sheksna by the construction of the Church of the Nativity of Christ in the neoclassical style favored by Catherine.

Imperial-era growth

Cherepovets had made gradual progress in consolidating its position during the reign of Catherine, but a review of the regional administration at the beginning of Emperor Paul’s reign in 1796 deprived Cherepovets of its status as a town and threatened its commercial livelihood. A petition sponsored by local merchants and craftsmen halted the bureaucratic decisions, and in 1802, at the beginning of the reign of Alexander I, Cherepovets regained its town status with slightly under 1,000 inhabitants. In further affirmation of its status, the town was granted a coat of arms in 1811.

A major stimulus to the economy of Cherepovets occurred with the opening in 1810 of the Mariinsky Canal System, which linked St. Petersburg with the Volga River Basin at the town of Rybinsk. With few other settlements on the long Sheksna portion of the waterway, Cherepovets became a base for boat building and repair in addition to barge hauling. By the middle of the 19th century, its population had more than tripled, to more than 3,000. The liberation of the serfs in 1861 deprived many peasants of a way to make a living on the land and consequently increased the available labor force in towns such as Cherepovets. Taking advantage of the situation, entrepreneurs also created new enterprises and factories.

Cherepovets benefited greatly from the energetic leadership of Ivan Miliutin, a shipping magnate and industrialist who served as the town’s mayor from 1861 until his death in 1907, and advanced the town’s river transportation facilities. Although he had only one year of formal schooling, Miliutin possessed great natural intelligence and business acumen. His charitable efforts endowed the town with several schools and led to major improvements in its infrastructure. The Ivan Miliutin house has been carefully restored in a park overlooking the confluence of the Yagorba and Sheksna Rivers.

Other restored historic houses include the magnificent Galskoi estate <hyperlink to my earlier article > on the opposite bank of the Sheksna River, and the Vereshchagin House-Museum in the center of town. The Vereshchagin house, a wooden structure dating from the 1830s, belonged to Vasily Vereshchagin, a prominent figure in the local gentry. His four sons included Vasily Vereshchagin, Russia’s most renowned painter of battle scenes; and Nikolay Vereshchagin, a leading pioneer in the development of Russia’s dairy industry.

The opening of a major northern rail line from St. Petersburg through Cherepovets and Vologda to Vyatka in 1905 provided further impetus to the town’s growth. A number of handsome brick commercial buildings from that period still stand in the center of town. Of special note is the area near at the intersection of Lenin Street and Soviet Prospect (known in the imperial period as Resurrection Prospect, because it led to the Resurrection Cathedral).

From regional center to industrial powerhouse

After the revolution, transportation continued to play a significant part in the town’s development, particularly with the expansion of the Volga-Baltic Waterway and the creation of the vast Rybinsk Reservoir in 1941. During the war years, Cherepovets played a critical role in supplying the military and serving as an evacuation zone for besieged Leningrad.

The town’s phenomenal growth began after the war with the realization of plans conceived in the late 1930s to create a giant steel mill. The area’s favorable transportation links made it possible to bring raw materials — above all iron ore and coal — and ship the finished products.

The early 1950s saw the activation of the first Cherepovets blast furnaces, which produced pig iron. Coke production began in 1956, and in 1958 the first open-hearth furnace began producing steel. The following year brought more advances, including a rolling mill, and the enormous enterprise became a completely integrated production complex. In 1993, the Cherepovets Metallurgic Factory was privatized and became Severstal.

The town’s other major enterprise is the chemical firm PhosAgro, which specializes in the production of fertilizer and was created from the combination of two major plants: Azot (nitrogen) and Ammophos. Together, these industrial giants employ some 40 percent of the city’s workforce and place it among Russia’s top 10 industrial centers.

The fate of Cherepovets’s churches          

Only a few of the town’s churches survived the Soviet period, however. The Trinity-St. Sergius Church was demolished, along with two major churches built in the 19 th century — the Annunciation Church, built from 1848-1861, demolished in 1939, and the Church of the Intercession, built in 1846, demolished in 1959. The Chapel of St. Philipp Arapskii, built in the early 1880s survived along with the Chapel of St. Nicholas, built in 1904 next to the main railroad station. It has since been renovated.

The Resurrection Cathedral also remained standing, and for several years after the revolution, it was used by a splinter, pro-Soviet Orthodox group known as the Renovationists, or the Living Church movement. After the cathedral’s closure in 1934, its five decorative domes were demolished, but its wall paintings, done in 1851, remained, as did those in a refectory expanded in 1884-1885. During World War II, the structure housed a repair facility for aircraft engines, but in 1946 it was returned to the official Orthodox Church as the city’s one functioning house of worship. The decorative domes were restored in the late 1980s.

The Nativity Church was closed in 1931 and converted to various industrial uses. It later fell into disrepair, and its remaining structure was severely damaged by a fire in 1989. A revived parish launched efforts to recreate the church at this highly visible location above the river. Thanks to an outpouring of private donations, work on a reconstruction of the church and its bell tower in their original form began in 1992 and was completed in 1997.

Despite serious economic fluctuations, Cherepovets has succeeded in maintaining an economic presence that supports numerous educational, cultural and religious institutions. Of special note is the new Cathedral of Sts. Afanasy and Feodosy of Cherepovets. Begun in 2009 and completed in 2014, the cathedral compound includes a separate bell tower as well as educational and administrative buildings. In 2015, the cathedral became the seat of the Cherepovets Diocese, part of the Vologda Metropolitanate.

Exhibit at MIT shows the beauty of ‘Architecture at the End of the Earth’>>>

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• Cherepovets, Vologda Oblast /
• Burger King, Sovetskiy Avenue, 63

Burger King

That's a good idea to order tasty ice cream . Good cappuccino or delicious lemonade are the most popular drinks of this restaurant. Visitors don't like hamburgers at Burger King .

The cozy atmosphere of this place allows guests to relax after a hard working day. Courteous staff members work hard, stay positive and make this place great. According to the clients, the main problem of this spot is the downscale service. Here you will pay adequate prices. This restaurant can be characterized by the spectacular decor inside. But people rate Burger King below average on Google.

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Tasty dishes in cherepovets.

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Fritz Hartmann

• March 26, 2009 at 1:01 PM

ich rekonstruiere gerade den milit. Werdegang meines verstorbenen Großvaters (1. Kompanie Jägerbataillon-2 – Feldpost-Nr. 06550 B).

Durch WASt und ein paar persönlicher Notizen, liegt mir nun folgendes vor:

Ab 1943 Fronteinsatz bei Witebsk (heute Wizebsk) Orscha in Russland 04.10.1943 Gefangennahme bei Starabek / UdSSR lt. WASt. Im Brief vom Batl.Kdr. an die Familie steht wiederum "...bei Starabell vermisst". 04.10.1943 – 26.08.1946 Gefangenschaft Russland Cevepowitz 15.01.1945 – 28.07.1945 Lazarett Therepowitz bei Moskau wegen Gelbsucht

Leider finde ich nichts über die genannten drei fett-markierten Orte (evtl. auf einer Notiz falsch geschrieben oder wird heute anders geschrieben). Kann mir hier vielleicht jemand weiterhelfen wo die Orte liegen bzw. wie sie heute heißen und ob es in Cevepowitz ein Gefangenenlager gab bzw. die Lagernummer o. ä.

Bin für alle Hinweise dankbar!

Gruß aus Hessen! Dennis

• March 26, 2009 at 9:47 PM

Hallo Dennis,

bezüglich der KGL hat sich Eddy einmal die Mühe gemacht, hier im Forum ein sehr komplexes Paket einzustellen.

Falls noch nicht bekannt, findest du es hier .

Schau dir dort einmal die Karten und Berichte mit den Ortsbezeichnungen genau an. Falls du aber auch damit nicht weiterkommen solltest, melde dich noch einmal.

• March 27, 2009 at 5:08 AM

mit dem Shtetl-Seeker findet sich bei der Suche nach "Cerepowitz":

http://maps.google.com/maps?z=9&q=59.1333,37.9000+ (Cherepovets)

• March 27, 2009 at 8:21 AM

Hallo Dennis, ich war in Tscherepovitz, habe Kontakt dorthin u. ein Buch in kyrillischer Schrift bekommen, daß über die Gefangenen u. Lager im Vologda Oblast berichtet. Darin ist das Bild von Erich Hartmann, Lager 7437. Ist das Dein Großvater ? In Zürich lebt noch ein Veteran der in diesem Lager war. Gruß Hummel.

• March 27, 2009 at 1:29 PM

Es ist natürlich doof, wenn auf allen Dokumenten die Orte irgendwie anders geschrieben werden. Ich dachte die WASt sollte es zumindest richtig schreiben. Nun kommen irgendwie mehrere Orte zur Auswahl.

Im Anhang noch die handschriftliche Notiz meines Großvaters, ich lese das als Gefangenschaft... "Cevepowitz" oder?

Vielleicht könntet man aber doch den richtigen Ort von den beiden Dokumenten "Erfassungsbogen" (hier letzter Wohnort) und dem russischen Dokument (Entlassungsschein?) erkennen??? Dorte sollten die Orte doch richtig geschrieben sein.

Und wie kann es sein, dass die WASt "vermisst bei Starabek/UdSSR" schreibt und man den Ort einfach nicht findet?

Peter - danke für den Link, wenn ich die Orte entschlüsselt habe, finde ich hier bestimmt was.

@bernhard - was ist ein "Shtetl-Seeker"?? Wie kommst Du auf den Ort?

Hummel - ein Bild meines Großvaters...

PS. Hab den Erfassungsbogen etwas vergrößert angehängt, dass man es besser lesen kann. Vielleicht hilfts beim entschlüsseln, der Geburtsort lautet "Brandau"

• March 27, 2009 at 6:20 PM

a) die Schreibweise von Ortsnamen ist aus vielen Gründen nicht einheitlich. Ein Hauptgrund sind wohl die unterschiedlichen Transkriptionen der russischen Buchstaben

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transkription_ (Schreibung)

Umbenennungen, andere Namen der Orte auf Ukrainisch, Polnisch etc. und nicht zuletzt Lese- und Schreibfehler. Viele Orte gibt es heute auch gar nicht mehr.

b) Wie kam ich auf „Cerepowitz“? - "Tschernowitz" z. B. wird auch „Cernowitz“ (wie CSSR) geschrieben. Das würde evtl. auch die Schreibweise „T(sc)herepowitz“ erklären. - „r“ und „v“ sind leicht zu verwechseln. Vergleiche mal auf dem Bild „Lebenslauf“ das „r“ von „Fronteinsatz“ mit dem von Cerepowitz.

c) Aus all diesen Gründen sucht die sehr leistungsfähige Ortssuchmaschine Sthetlseeker

http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp

phonetisch. So werden auch ähnlich klingende und ähnlich geschriebene Namen angezeigt. Man kann auch einen Ort, z. B. „Moscow“ oder Koordinaten kleinerer Orte eingeben. Dann zeigt das Programm die Entfernung der gefundenen Orte von Moskau etc. Wenn man z. B. das „G“ bei „EMUG“ anklickt, sieht man die Lage des Ortes bei "Google Maps".

Man sollte zusätzlich noch mit dem Namen „spielen“, indem man einzelne Buchstaben durch ähnlich klingende oder leicht mit russischen Buchstaben zu verwechselnde (z. B. ist unser lateinisches „p“ das kyrillische „r“) austauscht.

• March 27, 2009 at 6:35 PM

hier findest Du das Lager 7437 Tscherpoviz (und andere) im Beitrag 33 der Liste, siehe auch den Hinweis von Hummel...

Datenbank zu Kriegsgefangenen: Kampfräume, Gefangenentransporte und Lager im Osten

Mal sehen ob ich den Ort der Gefangennahme finden kann.

Einstweilen Gruß, Arnold

• March 27, 2009 at 6:36 PM

Ok das klingt logisch. Es könnte also durchaus nicht Cevepowitz sondern Cerepowitz lauten auf seiner Notiz/Lebenslauf.

arnold Glaubst Du auch, dass es sich bei der Notiz meines Großvaters um das Lager Tscherpoviz handelt?? Das wäre echt super wenn Du den Ort der Gefangennahme finden würdest!!

• April 2, 2009 at 10:39 AM

Wollte eben den Antrag des Suchreferat Moskau wegschicken für ein Auskunft über Unterlagen usw. von meinem Großvater im russ. Archiv.

Ich dachte "naja, 30EUR kann man da mal investieren"... Eben lese ich im Informationsblatt, dass dann mind. 200EUR auf mich zukommen und dann noch evlt. Übersetzungskosten oder Kosten für Post, Kopien usw.

Ich weis ja nicht wieviel Arbeit das macht und will die Arbeit auch nicht abwerten, aber für mich sind 200-250EUR doch ganz schön viel Geld. Ich schätze mal, dass es die einzige Möglichkeit ist an die Unterlagen/Akten usw. ranzukommen oder???

Da er von 1943-1946 in Gefangenschaft war und bis auf den Entlassungsschein nichts in seinen Unterlagen hat, wird dort bestimmt das ein oder andere Dokument vorliegen (denke ich zumindest). Ich habe gelesen, dass die Gefangenen auch Fragebogen ausfüllen mussten mit Angabe über die "Tätigkeit" bei der Wehrmacht, näheres zur Gefangennahme usw.

Was passierte denn mit den Unfiformen und für mich wichtiger, mit dem Soldbuch, Ausweis, Erkennungsmarke und was der normale Landser so alles bei sich hatte??

Gruß Dennis

• April 2, 2009 at 2:01 PM

ich habe den scan mal zu einer Bekannten nach Russland geschickt, mit der Bitte, den zu übersetzen.

Ich denke mal, morgen oder vielleicht sogar heute noch habe ich die Übersetzung...

Gruss aus Flensburg

Nachtrag: ich bekomme das wohl sogar noch heute im Laufe des Abends... jetzt muss sie in die Schule zum Elterntreffen

• April 4, 2009 at 10:32 AM

Guten Morgen,

hier ist dann mal der Scan mit der Übersetzung...

[Blocked Image: http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4320/image13b.jpg]

Könnte ein Mod mal bitte den Beitrag mit den wirren Kombinationen löschen?