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Published Jan 28, 2020

Let's Revisit the History of the Starfleet Insignia

As America debuts its Space Force flag, we take an in-depth examination of the famous Starfleet symbol.

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Last week, the official insignia for the United States Space Force debuted and Star Trek fans immediately thought it looked familiar:

Reactions to the logo for the newly formed Space Force included: "THIS IS THE STARFLEET LOGO!" "Is nothing sacred?" "Swell, now taxpayers get to pay for lawyers when you're sued by Paramount and the Roddenberry estate..." https://t.co/AJpqYd8Avb — NPR (@NPR) January 25, 2020

I can’t say how right or wrong they are, but it was a delicious irony that the real world decided to drop some new Trek content the same week we got the first episode of Star Trek: Picard . But they are also part of a back-and-forth between the design sensibilities of the United States military and space programs, and the Starfleet designs that are supposed to be a direct descendant of them.

This isn’t the first time the space program has taken inspiration from Trek , after all — the debut space shuttle was named the Enterprise after Trek fans waged a campaign for it, and decades later that shuttle became part of the opening credits to the show of the same name. But if you look at the fictional history of Starfleet and the real history of American military emblems, you can see that the new Space Force insignia mostly serves to fill in one more gap in the Starfleet emblem’s fictional history.

THE EARLY YEARS

Uniform patches have long been a tradition in the United States, and the general layout has been the same for decades, as seen with the United States Marine Corps insignia here — a circular layout, with the name of the organization around the outside, and the Corps’ “eagle, globe, and anchor” in the middle. This type of thing has informed public perceptions about what looks like an “official” organizational emblem for years.

The most obvious precursor to Starfleet in our modern world is NASA, where you can a lot of the same design elements that would later show up in Starfleet designs — the field of stars, the orbital path encircling the logo, and even a sort of oblong arrowhead shape that kind of looks like the Starfleet delta got stuck in a taffy-puller (or maybe an “automatic rice picker”). Patches like these show up, framed, in the “602 Club” frequented by Jonathan Archer and others of Starfleet’s earliest officers.

AIR FORCE SPACE COMMAND

The clearest design inspiration for the new Space Force logo is the shield for the Air Force Space Command, which was designed in the early 80s. The Space Command oversaw space-based defense missions like missile warning systems, and existed right up until the the Space Force became the sixth branch of the US Armed Forces in 2019. If nothing else, this shield showcases that if the United States is taking their design inspirations from Star Trek , they’ve been doing so for decades.

THE BEGINNINGS OF STARFLEET

“Through hardships to the stars” proclaims the earliest example of the Starfleet logo, which is clearly intended to be a direct descendent of the NASA emblems that proceeded it. In the early days, Starfleet uniforms featured a lot of design elements later uniforms would drop: things like visible zippers, plenty of pockets, and designated ship patches for each vessel. The crews of ships like the Enterprise and Colombia proudly identified the ship to which they belonged — because when you serve aboard the Enterprise , no matter the era, you want people to know it.

INCORPORATING THE MACOs

Before the creation of the Federation, the Earth stood alone. With the creation of a united Earth government, there was no longer a need to maintain militaries for individual countries to fight one another. The soldiers didn’t go away, however: they became MACOs, the “Military Assault Command Ops,” the official military tasked with defending Earth against extraterrestrial threats. By comparison, Starfleet was a smaller pilot program that spent its nascent years in danger of being scrapped.

When Earth was attacked by the Xindi, Jonathan Archer was sent to find and stop them — and he was given a detachment of MACO troops to help bolster Starfleet’s firepower. The MACO insignia includes a five-pointed star with an elongated top, which would become incorporated into the Starfleet logo

THE U.S.S. FRANKLIN

The Franklin is a ship that vanished during the early days of Starfleet, and its captain, Balthazar Edison, served as a MACO before the formation of the Federation. This mission patch shows one of the earliest instances of the Starfleet “Delta” in more or less the right shape.

THE U.S.S. DISCOVERY

By the time of the U.S.S. Discovery , the Starfleet insignia had evolved to a very recognizable form — with the addition of a vertical line that separated the insignia into two-toned sections. The MACO star, by this point, signified command-level crew, with different-model insignia for other departments.

KIRK'S ENTERPRISE

For a while during Kirk’s era, different divisions aboard the ship had different variants of the Starfleet insignia to denote the different departments, like Science and Engineering/Operations. Later generations (including The Next Generation ) would indicate departments through color-coded jumpsuits.

The Starfleet insignia later took on greater utility and importance as it came to house an officer’s communicator, scaled down from the bulky “flip-phone” design to a hands-free wearable device. The badge also tracks the wearer’s movements and activities everywhere they go, kind of like our smart phones do now (it’s best not to think about that too much).

Originally seen in the TNG series finale “All Good Things…” this future combadge popped up in multiple alternate futures: Captain Nog wears it in “The Visitor,” and a future version of Admiral Janeway dons one in Voyager ’s finale, “Endgame.” A slightly-sleeker version of this iteration of the combadge appears to be what Starfleet is wearing by the time of the new Star Trek: Picard .

THE FUTURE'S FUTURE

Spotted on the lapel of time-traveling 29th-century Starfleet officer Captain Braxton in Voyager , this combadge shows that the Starfleet insignia truly has some staying power.

Of course, the 29th century was previously the farthest ahead we’ve ever gotten in the Trek timeline, but with the upcoming season of Discovery we’ll hopefully see our intrepid crew carrying the gospel of slightly-oblong triangles to a new generation of future humanoids.

Sean Kelly (he/him) is a freelance writer based in St. Louis. He occasionally gets depressed that he’ll never know what raktajino tastes like.

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How To Tell A Star Trek Character's Rank At A Glance: Rank Pips Explained

This post contains  spoilers for the premiere of "Star Trek: Lower Decks" season 4.

At the beginning of the fourth season of "Star Trek: Lower Decks," the four main characters Boimler (Jack Quaid), Mariner (Tawny Newsome), Tendi (Noël Wells), and Rutherford (Eugene Cordero) are each promoted from the lowly rank of ensign to the only slightly-less-lowly rank of lieutenant junior grade. They still don't have much clout on the U.S.S. Cerritos, but at least now they no longer have to sleep in a hallway. One can see their promotions right away as, on their collars, they wear one solid pip and one empty pip. That, any Trekkie will instantly tell you, is the configuration for a lieutenant junior grade.

It should be noted that "Star Trek" has, since its inception, used extant naval ranks to designate Starfleet officers. Just like in the real United States Navy, officers start at the rank of ensign, then work their way up through lieutenant junior grade, then lieutenant, then lieutenant commander, then commander, then captain, before moving into the various ranks of admiral. "Star Trek" often makes reference to admirals and sometimes vice-admirals. There is also an occasional fleet admiral, the highest rank in both the Navy and in Starfleet. "Star Trek," to my recollection, has never referred to a real admiral, either lower half or upper half. Perhaps by the 22nd century, those ranks will be abandoned. 

To command a starship, one typically has to bear the rank of captain, as we know from Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway, Archer, Freeman, Pike, etc. Although it is not a requirement, a starship's first officer traditionally holds the rank of commander (Riker, Chakotay, Ransom, etc.). 

We're going to do a deep dive into Starfleet ranking, so strap in for some extremely nerdy deep cuts. 

The pips ranking system on "Star Trek" wasn't adopted until the days of "Next Generation," but they are the clearest, so it's a good place to start when educating one's self on Starfleet's chain of command. 

Petty officers wear one empty pip on a starship. These are the enlisted members who didn't attend Starfleet Academy. Engineers, security personnel, yeomen, and the like are petty officers and take orders from the lowest-ranking Academy graduate officers on the ship. If one looks into expanded universe lore, one can find a hierarchy of Starfleet petty officers. There are master petty officers at the top, chief petty officers directly underneath, and several ranks below them. Those ranks, however, are rarely discussed on "Star Trek."

As mentioned above, ensigns wear one full pip, as seen on Wesley Crusher's collar above. Lieutenants junior grade wear one full pip and one empty pip. Lieutenants wear two full pips, and lieutenant commanders wear two full pips and one empty pip. 

Commanders wear three pips, because it is a difficult rank to achieve. 

Captains wear four pips, and are typically given the promotion when they are put in command of a starship. It's understood that only one captain lives on a starship at any given time. 

Admirals have their own ranking system, with solid pips surrounded by boxes.

Commodores (an honorary title) have one boxed pip, rear admirals have two, vice admirals have three, regular admirals have four, and fleet admirals have five. "Star Trek" only deals with admirals from time to time, however, and characters who achieve that rank are often presented as villainous or unduly ambitious; Trekkies have been trained to be suspicious of admirals . 

Other rank insignias

The premise of "Star Trek: Voyager" took a single Federation starship and slung it clear across the galaxy with a group of rebel Maquis members on board. Rather than keep the Maquis in the brig for the 70 years it would take the U.S.S. Voyager to return to Earth, Captain Janeway (Kate Mulgrew) assigned them ranks and made them part of the crew. Because these characters had not been to Starfleet Academy, however, they were given only provisional field ranks, a status reflected in their rank pips. 

One can see the rank of Chakotay (Robert Beltran) in the photo above. He wears an elongated, rounded-edged bar with diagonal stripes. The coloration on the stripes corresponds to the open and closed pips of more traditional ranks. One can be a provisional ensign all the way up to a provisional captain. It's understood that these ranks are temporary. On the latest season of "Star Trek: Lower Decks," the character of T'Lyn (Gabrielle Ruiz) bears a provisional rank as she is an exchange officer from a Vulcan ship. 

In some alternate future timelines (and this is "Star Trek," so there are plenty of those), the franchise's costume designers moved the rank pips from uniform collars to the communicator badges on their chests. Rather than little circular pips, their badges bore one to four elongated stripes behind the familiar Starfleet delta symbol. 

Trekkies caught onto the pip ranking system pretty quickly, and many of us learned all about naval ranks through "Star Trek." The original series, however, was a little more oblique about visual ranking systems. It used to be a code stitched onto officer's sleeves. 

The history of rank insignias

In the picture above, one can see the way ranks used to work on the original "Star Trek." Captain Kirk (William Shatner) had no rank on his collar, but wavy golden stripes around his wrist. Looking around at the crew, one found the following system: ensigns had no stripes on their wrists, while lieutenants junior grade had single "dashed" stripes. Lieutenants had a single solid stripe, and lieutenant commanders had a solid stripe and a dashed stripe (as seen on Scotty above). 

Commanders (see Spock) had two solid stripes and captains (see Kirk) had two solid stripes with a dashed stripe in between them. The stripes were gold, giving the uniforms a pleasingly garish touch. 

The "Star Trek" movies made the ranking code even more oblique. Rather than deal with a series of easily readable pips or stripes, the uniforms seen in "Star Trek II" through " Star Trek VI " bore a formal over-the-shoulder strap that rested on the wearer's right shoulder. Whatever pin you saw affixed to that strap corresponded to the officer's rank. Sadly, there was no intuitive way to discern what that rank might be. Ensigns, for instance, wore a small v-shaped pin. Lieutenants junior grade wore two funnel-shaped pins. Lieutenants wore an hourglass-shaped pin, and lieutenant commanders wore an elongated pennant-like shape with a single stripe through it. Commanders wore the same shape but with two stripes. The captain got to be fancy and wore a pin with three stripes, but also a pair of pointy arrowhead-like symbols affixed to it. 

Only deep-cut Trekkies can suss out the differences. 

That ranking system is an aberration, though. In the early days of "Star Trek: Enterprise" and the latter days of "Star Trek: Picard," the pip system is solidly in place. 

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Star Trek Badges and Communicator Pins

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Toynk Star Trek: The Original Series Delta Starfleet Command Enamel Pin | Metal Badge Accessories for Backpack, Clothes, Hats

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• READY TO BEAM DOWN: Journey into the final frontier, where your fandom will accelerate to warp speed with this exclusive enamel pin. Inspired by the iconic Starfleet insignia from Star Trek: The Original Series.
• KIRK TO ENTERPRISE: You'll be able to let everyone in the Federation know you're a proud member of Starfleet when you wear this gold Delta pin. The star in the center signifies that you're on the fast track to your own command.
• BOLD QUALITY FOR STARFLEET'S FINEST: Proudly pin this Delta badge to your attire, so your fandom can always be displayed wherever you are in the universe. Small-scale design measures approximately 1.5 x 1 inches.
• FEDERATION SEAL OF APPROVAL: Hearkening back to the time of Captain James T. Kirk, this gold badge represents the proud tradition of Starfleet. The familiar Delta symbol features the arrow-shaped emblem used by personnel.
• OFFICIAL STAR TREK COLLECTIBLE: Get ready to seek out new life and new civilizations. Journey beyond the rim of starlight with this officially licensed Delta Starfleet Command pin inspired by Star Trek: The Original Series.

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INFINITE DIVERSITY IN INFINITE COMBINATIONS Your five-year mission has just begun with this exclusive gold Delta badge inspired by Star Trek: The Original Series. Prepare to join the crew of the USS Enterprise, under the command of the infamous (and notorious) James Tiberius Kirk. And with this gold Delta Command pin on your uniform, you'll be able to fit right in with the rest of Starfleet. Unless you end up in the Mirror Universe, in which case, we hope you can grow a goatee really quickly. I DON'T BELIEVE IN A NO-WIN SCENARIO This golden pin features the distinctive arrow-shaped pennant in high-quality print. Donning this badge is a good way of showing the world that you stand for the principles of Starfleet, ready to face whatever the galaxy throws your way. There will never be a question of where your allegiance lies when you proudly display this Delta emblem on your person. Prepare to assume command with this officially licensed collectible from Star Trek: The Original Series.

• Product Dimensions ‏ : ‎ 2.4 x 0.3 x 2.2 inches; 0.35 ounces
• Department ‏ : ‎ unisex adult
• Date First Available ‏ : ‎ March 8, 2023
• Manufacturer ‏ : ‎ Silver Buffalo
• ASIN ‏ : ‎ B0BYY25SVJ
• Country of Origin ‏ : ‎ China
• #8,889 in Women's Brooches & Pins

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A sheriff's badge (top)

A badge was an insignia which could be a symbol of authority , responsibility, or membership of an organization. ( DS9 : " Trials and Tribble-ations ")

The mascot of Tribbles Spicy Ranch cereal wore a cowboy hat with a sheriff 's star - shaped badge pinned to it. ( ST : " The Trouble with Edward ")

The badge worn by many generations of Starfleet personnel was shaped like an arrowhead. Like the uniform , it showed the division in which one was serving. In the 24th century , this badge was integrated with the communicator to become the combadge . ( TNG : " Encounter at Farpoint ", et al.)

In the novel Federation , written by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens , the shape was explained as indicative of the warp threshold boundary. The star in the middle of the badge represented the speed of light, the upper edge of the badge was a graph of normal energy versus speed (indicating that it was impossible to reach the speed of light without infinite energy) and the lower edge the graph with warp engines taken into account.

In the mid- 23rd century , two types of distinctive Vulcan badges, including the IDIC , were worn by graduates of the Vulcan Science Academy on their graduation day . One of these badges was worn on the left breast of a white cloak and the other, the IDIC, was worn near the neck, clasping the front of the cloak together. ( DIS : " Lethe ")

These Vulcan badges were 3D printed and hand painted in Toronto, Canada. ("Star Trek Exhibition" at DIS : " Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum " screening, Millbank Tower, London, UK, 5 November 2017 ) One of each type of these badges was featured at Star Trek: The Exhibition in Blackpool, UK, and are now on a world tour, first shown at a screening of the episode " Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum " at London's Millbank Tower on 5 November 2017. There, a placard describing the exhibit referred to them as "Vulcan IDIC badge and pendant".

The medicine badge was a badge adorned to a headband which was worn by the medicine chief of the Amerind inhabitants . ( TOS : " The Paradise Syndrome ")

As of 2399 , visitors to Starfleet Headquarters were issued badges identifying them as visitors. ( PIC : " Maps and Legends ")

See also [ ]

• Assignment patch
• Button badge

External link [ ]

• Badge at Wikipedia
• 1 Bell Riots
• 2 Obi Ndefo
• 3 Gabriel Bell

Federation Stardate: 40558.2

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Star Trek Enamel Pins Boldly go where no accessory has gone before with Star Trek enamel pins! These pins aren’t just pieces of metal and color; they’re like tiny windows into the boundless universe of space exploration, diplomacy, and camaraderie. Step into a realm where starships journey through galaxies, where strange new worlds await, and where optimism knows no bounds.

Picture yourself donning the iconic Starfleet insignia pin, a symbol of unity and the indomitable human spirit. It’s not just a pin; it’s a declaration that you’re ready to explore the final frontier of fashion and adventure. From Captain Kirk’s charismatic charm to Spock’s logical wisdom, these pins let you wear your favorite characters right on your sleeve – or on your lapel.

And the magic doesn’t stop at characters. With every Star Trek enamel pin, you’re embracing a philosophy of hope and cooperation that resonates through generations. It’s a reminder that humanity can come together, transcending borders and biases, to create a future where diversity is celebrated and possibilities are limitless.

Imagine sparking conversations with fellow fans, sharing your favorite episodes, debating the best starships, and dreaming about what lies beyond the stars. These pins are more than accessories; they’re catalysts for connection, a way to find your fellow space explorers in a crowded galaxy.

But perhaps the most incredible aspect of Star Trek enamel pins is how they embody the essence of exploration and discovery. Just like the Enterprise seeks out new life and civilizations, you can boldly wear these pins into new environments, spreading the message of optimism and unity wherever you go.

So, whether you’re a Trekkie who’s been on this voyage for years or a newbie ready to set your phasers to fun, Star Trek enamel pins are your ticket to a universe of imagination and camaraderie. With each pin, you’re not just accessorizing – you’re joining a legacy of exploration, embracing the future, and declaring that the stars are within your reach.

Beam up some positivity and adventure with Star Trek enamel pins – the perfect companions for your journey through fashion and the cosmos.

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• September 6, 2024 | First Wave From New Star Trek Starships Die Cast Collection Revealed; Pre-Orders Open Today
• September 6, 2024 | Podcast: All Access Star Trek And Robert Hewitt Wolfe Revisit The Sept. 2024 Bell Riots Of DS9’s “Past Tense”
• September 5, 2024 | Interview: Elias Toufexis Talks Breen Backstory And Not Playing L’ak As A Villain In ‘Star Trek: Discovery’
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Interview: Elias Toufexis Talks Breen Backstory And Not Playing L’ak As A Villain In ‘Star Trek: Discovery’

| September 5, 2024 | By: Anthony Pascale 17 comments so far

Last week the fifth and final season of Star Trek: Discovery arrived on Blu-ray and DVD complete with exclusive special features (see TrekMovie review ). With season 5 now coming home one last time, TrekMovie checked in again with gust star Elias Toufexis to talk his role as the Breen L’ak.

We talked right before the finale aired and you didn’t want to get into how L’ak’s story ended. So, now that it’s over, how do you feel about the end of his story?

I think like everybody else, I kind of wanted a happier ending, but I understand. I wanted him to come back and just be like, “Oh, good,” and he and Moll go off and live their lives. But I think story-wise, it makes more sense to do what they did. I don’t know if they had plans for Moll or if they still have plans for Moll. But obviously, them together wasn’t how it was going to turn out. So, I was disappointed because I loved playing L’ak and I loved their relationship and I wanted them to be together. But from a pragmatic storytelling point of view, I understood the choice. And I didn’t know that at the time, when I was shooting the death scene. I didn’t know if he was coming back or not. So I never got that kind of feeling of finality.

For the finale, did you play your own corpse?

No. They asked me to do it and I was like, “Should I fly back up to Toronto and play a corpse?” And my kids were starting school and I was like, “Nah, forget it, you could just put it on somebody up there.” And it’s fine. It looks great. I don’t know if they put it on a person or if it was a dummy or whatever they did, but it wasn’t me.

L-R Elias Toufexis as L’ak and Eve Harlow as Moll in “Erigah” (Paramount+)

The first time I saw you talk about Trek was at the Vegas convention the year before season 5 came out and you described L’ak as the main villain for the season…

Or one of the main villains, is probably what I said.

But is that really how you see him?

No. That was just how to sell it, like I’m not going to say, “I’m playing one of the main villains, but they’re not really villains. They actually have a real reason to do what they’re doing, and they don’t hate anybody, but they want people to just leave them alone.” It’s harder to say in a sound bite, but that’s really what I thought. I never saw him as a villain. You can’t really play villains. It doesn’t really make sense if he’s just evil. Then it’s boring.

One of my favorite things is how they gave me a whole episode to play why he’s doing what he’s doing. That’s pretty rare. I play a lot of bad guys on TV, and most of the time its somebody else who explains, ‘Well, his dad did this to him,’ or I have one monologue where I explain what happened and this is why I’m like this. But to actually have a whole episode dedicated to explore why he’s making these choices. That, for me, was fantastic. I never played him as an actual villain. I mean, he’s one of the antagonists, no doubt, but to him, he just wants freedom and he wants to be with his love and he wants everybody to leave him alone.

Sonequa Martin-Green as Burnham Elias Toufexis as L’ak in Star Trek: Discovery “Mirrors” (Paramount+)

As a genuine Trek fan, you knew all about the Breen beforehand. Did you have a chance to talk to the writers much about how they were developing the Breen canon? And is there more than what we saw on screen?

Yes. I talked to the writers a lot. I talked to [co-showrunner] Michelle [Paradise] and [executive producer/director Olatunde Osunsanmi] a lot about the Breen hierarchy. And we had to make up together why he has this antagonistic relationship with his uncle, why doesn’t he want to be this prince? and stuff like that.

Why doesn’t he?

I don’t really remember the specifics of it, but I remember what I was playing was basically, ‘I’ve never wanted this. I’m not like you. I don’t like this militaristic lifestyle.’ It’s a classic story of the prince or the princess not wanting to be a prince or princess. I remember thinking maybe playing in my head that my uncle killed my actual parents because he wanted to take over and was scared of them. I definitely played that I was scared and frightened of him, even though I hated him. There are moments – and I’m glad they captured them – that I played that we didn’t rehearse where he’s talking and you can see that L’ak is a little frightened of him. I’m glad they kept those things in.

In terms of the overall Breen, I do have some friends from Deep Space Nine . The Breen were mentioned in TNG but explored mostly in Deep Space Nine and so I remember calling my friend Robert Hewitt Wolfe who was one of the main writers on DS9… and he filled me in on the background of the Breen from that era. And I am sure I used that somewhere in the performance of the Breen in the new Trek era.

L-R Elias Toufexis as L’ak and Eve Harlow as Moll in “Red Directive” (Paramount+)

Things often get changed, was there anything written or shot that got cut that you wish didn’t?

No, they were pretty good. I was really nervous about that because I thought, ‘Man, if they’re going to cut this, then it’s not really going to work.’ There were some shots that were trimmed, but for the most part, everything we shot was there. I did have an issue once with the ending of episode 5, when he gets stabbed. I’m not one-hundred-percent sure about this, but I think originally he wasn’t going to be in any more episodes and he would have just died then. The way it was written was kind of like his final “I love you, goodbye.” Even though I knew at that point we had decided that he’s going to come back for more episodes, but I don’t think they changed the script. So we had to make that kind of denouement of, “I love you Moll, everything’s going to be okay, goodbye.” We had to keep those lines, but make it not goodbye. And I remember Michelle was there and the writers were there, the director was there. And Eve [Harlow] and I and Sonequa [Martin-Green] we all were like, “How do we make this work?” And it took a little bit to make it work. I think what we ended up deciding was he knows that they’re trapped. He’s giving up because he knows they’re trapped, not because he’s dying. We kept the script the same, but we kind of changed the intention.

You can keep up with Elias on Twitter/X . He can be heard voicing one of the main characters in the Netflix series Blood of Zeus , which just got picked up for a third season. He also voices the main character in the upcoming sci-fi game Neo Berlin and returns to his Starfield role of Sam Coe in the Shattered Space expansion which arrives later this month.

Elias Toufexis

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Discovery Season 5 can be bought at Amazon on Blu-ray for $32.99  or  DVD for $29.99 . The limited edition Steelbook Blu-ray can be ordered for $39.99 .

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The complete series box set is available for $55.47 on Blu-ray and  $47.87 on DVD .

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Note: The interview has  been edited for brevity and clarity. 

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L’ak was not a terrible character, but there was nothing about him that was interesting. He was one of the most forgettable characters that Discovery came up with. At least he wasn’t as one-dimensional as Moll.

Well, I thought they were both more three-dimensional the villains in the two preceding seasons, or the incestuous Romulan in PICARD season 1. Not that this is a high standard.

The big letdown, though, was the Breen in general. Underneath the environmental suits, they’re basically garden-variety latex aliens that can make their skulls transparent sometimes. Big whoop. And like the Cardassians or Romulans, they have a totalitarian government. They might as well have *been* Cardassians.

I’m totally with you on the Breen. Thirty years of mystery, resolved with…. er…. they’re fascist Jello. The Breen was pointless.

It’s always amusing seeing interviews like these or the ones with Wilson Cruz asking about their character’s job or backstory, and them not knowing.

Sadly, it’s common with the Discovery cast since the writers gave them so little material. Very few of the characters had any actual development or backstory.

Sadly I expect nothing less from this show. I remember Anthony Rapp said something similar about his character as well. Another example of how badly written and organized it was. They were smart to just finally put it out of its misery.

Out of all the bad decisions Star Trek Discovery has ever made, giving a backstory to the Breen has gotta be one of the most emblematic. Their species’ whole deal is that no one knows anything about them, aside for how dangerous it is to turn your back on them. It’s the worst thing you could do to a Star Trek DS9 idea besides making Section 31 be on Starfleet’s payroll. It just so totally misses the point of what makes those ideas so appealing in the first place: the mystery! The intrigue! It’s a perfect microcosm of Discovery’s #1 policy: “if less is more, imagine how much more more will be?”

For full disclosure, I never saw Discovery season 5. But reading this article about how the main Breen heavy in this season has a main character arc about fighting his uncle about not wanting to become prince of the Breen… if you have to give the the most mysterious Trek species a cultural backstory after they nearly conquered the Federation single-handedly and then got off Scott-free without ever revealing their faces, their voices, or anything else about themselves, DON’T base them off Ariel from The Little Mermaid! There’s a reason I stopped watching midway through season 4.

Good point.

The problem with L’ak is that it was almost like the people who wrote the first half of season 5 didn’t talk with the people who came up with the conclusion to the season. Or, more likely, at some point the writers had no idea how to write an ending for these characters, so they did a weird shift at the end that made no sense for the characters.

L’ak is set up as this nothing nephew of the Primarch who’s such an embarrassment they have him doing cargo inventory. And his entire reasoning for getting the Progenitor technology to spare himself and Moll from a death warrant.

In order for the Breen to be the threat at the end, they have to throw all that out and redo it at the end, where now L’ak is the special “scion” of the Breen that all of them need. If L’ak is that important, and has that much influence that different Breen factions need his support (and the Breen would follow Moll in order to try to resurrect him), why would he and Moll need the progenitor tech in the first place? But the plot demands that because they need the Breen to be the antagonists.

It goes along with Moll’s conclusion where they basically “yada yada” her ending off-screen, with Kovich like “oh yeah, we’ll turn her into a Federation agent.”

It’s a total mess.

The writers screwed the space-pooch.

The L’ak and Moll were unnecessary this season. If anything, they were a distraction. It felt like Scooby Doo, all the back and forth with the Relics…

I watched the first 2 episodes of Disco S5. Then I got occupied by other things. Never felt a strong desire to watch the rest. This article and the comments have further inspired me not to watch.

I only got as far as the first episode of the season. It just felt more of the same for me (read bad) and more generic villains want to take down the galaxy. I had planned to watch the few two episodes at least before I decide if I would watch more but I couldn’t even get that far. I know the actors playing L’ak and Moll did their best but it just felt more of the same we get on this show

And while I love the Breen as a species on DS9, sadly it sounded like they were ruined on Discovery hearing the complaints about them online. I didn’t read any of the threads here or anywhere about the season because I just lost all interest in the show; but looking at most of these posts people seemed to have the same complaints about them here as well.

And like you the comments here about the season just told me I made the right call haha.

So I choose to just remember them on how they were portrayed on DS9 and just avoid the Discovery versions altogether because unfortunately I think Discovery is a really bad show that I have no desire to keep subjecting myself to.

I decided to give Discovery a chance to redeem itself and watched S5… but gave up before the end and didn’t watch the finale. I just couldn’t make myself watch it when I knew I would get nothing out of it. I’ve had enough of the hugging and tears and “you’ve got this!” attitude from characters propping each other up for support and validation like 12 year olds trying to get the courage to face their first day of high school…

This is exactly why I gave up so early because even just based on the first episode it felt like it was already going down that route. I didn’t want to get into a season I would just give up on because I’m tired of all the crying and hand holding. I stopped watching in the middle of seasons 3 and 4 like you did with this season. I didn’t want to do it for a third time.

If I was hearing the season was much improved then I would’ve tried again. But it sounded like the same complaints as before and the story itself just dragged. It was obvious they used a TNG storyline to try and make people care about this show again but sorry that still wasn’t enough.

And I looked at the rating of the finale on IMDB and it was pretty low, like a 6.2 or something. I don’t remember exactly but it’s one of the lowest Star Trek finales ever. Just speaks to the problems this show always had from the beginning to the bitter end.

Haven’t gotten to this season yet, but I did enjoy his performance in Star Trek: Resurgance…

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